Modern science has generally been directed toward investigating
the material world, excluding consideration of the conscious
scientist who is essential to the whole process, since, of
course, the very existence of the scientific endeavor itself
depends upon consciousness. Complete scientific knowledge must
consequently include both objective science and subjective
consciousness.
In addition to other programs, Bhaktivedanta Institute’s Science
and Scientist Newsletter is humbly offered to inspire scientists
and scholars to contribute their sincere efforts toward
developing this grand synthesis. The result will be valuable not
only for helping to better understand the “hard” problems of
science such as the nature and origin of life and the cosmos, the
mind-brain connection, artificial intelligence, etc. But the
pressing problems of ethics in science, world peace, and
interfaith dialog will also benefit from a more inclusive
scientific worldview.
In our modern era science and religion are the predominating
influences determining the fate of mankind. Promoting and
developing a culture of harmony between such diverse fields has
the potential to expand our conception of reality and advance
human knowledge in the new millennium, in which it is said the
study of life will be pre-eminent. Let us welcome the dawn of
that new epoch with great hope and determined endeavor.
In the Satsanga Devotees asked questions to HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami and Maharaj answered the questions:
Devotee 1: ‘The passion for honor’ is it good?
HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: No. We don’t want that. That is mundane consciousness. Mahaprabhu taught the opposite. amanina mana-dena. amanina means don’t strive for honor and mana-dena give honor. Give honor and don’t strive for it. Give honor to others. The disease of our material condition is that we want to be in Krsna’s position. We come to the material world because we are jealous of Krsna’s position. We don’t want to be Krsna Das, we want to be Krsna. That’s how we get here into the material conception of life. So we have to act in a way that will counter that influence, that conditioning. And that we do by going into more humble position by elevating the environment. Elevating what is around me to a higher position than myself. Not that, I try to hold my self in a higher position than my environment. If I try to hold myself in a higher position than my environment then that is the opposite direction I want to go in. Rather I want to see the environment as sacred and I am giving worship to that. That will be the satisfying position. Just the opposite of material life.
Devotee 2: How in a nucleus the protons and neutrons are held stable (the protons are positively charged and they don’t repel each other even though they are held very close to each other)?
HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: That is a mystery that the scientists also have to deal with. In physics there are four forces. There are four forces that physicists know about. One is called the electro-magnetic force. Positive and negative charges attract and the same charges repel. The force of attraction and repulsion is known as electro-magnetic force. When two protons or electrons come close each other they will repel. But we know that in the nucleus the two protons are held very close together. May be separated by a neutron, we don’t know. But anyhow they are very close together. How to put to them in such close proximity? There must be very strong force to counteract the electro-magnetic force. So that force in side the nucleus that is holding the two protons together is called nuclear force or the strong force. They have given the name strong force because they know it has to be very strong.
There is an inverse square law associated with the electromagnetic force field. The force varies inversely with respect to the square of the distance between them. In the nucleus the distance between the protons is very small. So the corresponding force that is required to counter the repealing force is very high. That is very strong force is called the ‘strong force’ in the physics.
Besides the electro-magnetic force and the strong force there are also weak force and gravitational forces. So they have these four forces electro-magnetic forces, strong forces, weak forces and gravitational forces. Weak and strong forces are not known very well. That is why they just keep calling with these very obscure names weak and strong forces.
Not only that, they don’t know how to unify all these four forces. Especially, gravity is a big problem. It appears to be totally different from any of the other forces. And the only way they can deal with that in any unified way is what they call string theory.
String theory is just a mathematical device. When you invoke string theory then you have to call in ten or eleven dimensions (dimensions besides space and time). This is very abstract theory. Nobody really believes it. If they can include all these other dimensions arbitrarily who knows how many dimensions they can include. Someone wants to say there are twenty dimensions, twenty four dimensions and thirty six dimensions. If you start talking about dimensions then what limit we would give to that. It is all theoretical and mathematical. Nothing can be measured there. Only if it somehow or other unifies the forces then we think that is reality. Something very speculative there. Any how that is the situation.
Devotee 2: In ‘Theory of Everything’ I read it has 11 dimensions and it can be possible that 2 or more universe exist at same place or at a distance 2 mm from each other. How can spirituality and meditation help us to understand this mystery?
HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: First of all that is just a theory. Whether that is true or not, we don’t know. We don’t accept that. We never heard anything like that in veda. So they can come up with so many different theories in every year. So they are coming up with the new theory. They don’t know what they are talking about either. Only they are coming up with different theories. So we don’t have to try to break our brains to try to understand how it is possible or not. When they will settle on with some theory then we will discuss that. At present they don’t have any theory that we can say as final.
We accept vedic conclusions about reality. According to vedic conclusions there are many universes. We agree. And they are floating in the sea of consciousness. Each universe represent different set of consciousness. When one can understand the mysteries of consciousness or the quality of consciousness then he may get some incite how there are so many different universes. Therefore it is a difficult question. That will depend on your own realization. But we know form the Vedas that this principle is there. The principle that everything is floating in consciousness. Both spiritual and material worlds.
Now we have to learn how to go from material consciousness to spiritual consciousness. That is the real question. We are not so interested in the material universes. Our primary interest is how to get out of this universe that we are presently in. The one that has Brahama with four heads – chatur mukhi brahma. How to get out of this universe of birth and death? It is very dangerous situation we are in. Now we have human form of life. We can inquire about our spiritual identity. Then we should not worry about how many universes there are. But how to get out of the one we are in. That is the most important task. If your head hair is on fire, you don’t be thinking how many universes are there. Immediately want to put the fire out. Like that. So that kind of urgency we have to have with our present situation. How to arise from the consciousness of material conditioning to the platform of Krsna consciousness?
So we want to discuss that today I think instead of some scientific topic. We are going to discuss the science of Krsna consciousness. This is near Mahaprabhu’s appearance day and He brought to us the great gift of the holy name. We like to speak about this topic. Gradations of the Holy Name by Srila Bhakti Rakshaka Sridhara deva Goswami Maharaja. Here we can find something about hearing sincerely. Not only sincerity is necessary but hearing from the right person is necessary. How we can lean, What is sincerity? What is real goal of our chanting? What is the real goal of our life? That has to be understood from the proper source. It is not that we take the name and however sincerely doing that if we don’t have the right conception that may not be sufficient for us. Here that is explained. The ‘Science of the Holy Name’ has to be understood very carefully.
Srila Sridhar Maharaj gives this explanation ‘Gradations of the Holy Name’. There are different degrees or the grades of the holy name. Not that the holy name is the same of one and all. “There are those that think that Hari-nama, Krsna-nama, and Siva-nama are one and the same, like the followers of the Ramakrishna Mission or the Sankara school. They teach that, but such an idea originates in the plane of misunderstanding. Suddha-nama, the pure Name, must have its original form in nirguna-bhumika, far beyond the misconception of maya. The influence of maya reaches up to Viraja; then there is Brahmaloka, then Paravyoma. The real Name must have its origin in Paravyoma, and Krsna-nama originates in Goloka, the most original plane of the whole existence. To be really Krsna-nama, it must have its origin in the highest plane of Vrndavana. Nama-akara, the mere physical sound, is not the Name proper.”
You heard of ahamkar right? ahamkar means ‘I am this body’. The identification of physical self with the body. So there is also Nama-akara. Means identification of the name with the physical sound — tanmatra. Identification with the physical sound that we hear that is also not the name proper. Then what is the name? What do we mean by holy name?
“The real Name is necessary not only for us to get out of this world of maya or misunderstanding, but for the attainment of the service of Krsna in Vrndavana. The Name that has its origin in the Vrndavana plane, only that can take us there. Otherwise, if the spirit in the Name, the sound, is of any other type, it may take us to that mundane place only.
This is quite scientific; it is not unreasonable. A mere word is not the Name. The meaning and the essence of the meaning, the deep conception of the meaning, that is everything; it is all in all. It is all-important to serve our purpose.”
So this is very interesting interpretation Srila Sridhar Maharaj has given about the name. In a general way we are taught just chant the holy name and nothing else has told about the gradation of the name. But, if we look deeply into the scriptures, into the finer details – the scientific structure of what the name is Nama, we will found it has a profound and deep meaning. And that is being explained here. In general the name is preached in a broad way to everyone without any interpretation. And the encouragement is given. Just chant the name everything will be ok. Just chant and be happy. That is alright. At least they are chanting the holy name instead of chanting some non-sense. In fact some conception they have that the name that they are chanting is not just some word.
There was one Yogi, “Mahesh Yogi” who was teaching some transcendental meditation. For the meditation he was charging them 1000 USD and he would give them some name like bang, banana or splash (laughter). You chant this name and you will get some meditation benefit. Like that. He was giving them some words to chant. You meditate on this word and you will get some higher realization. So that is not the name. Krsna is not like that – bang, banana or splash. Krsna is a name found in the Veda as the name of the absolute truth. The nomenclature of the absolute is given as Krsna, Govinda, these are all names found in sastra.
The great saintly devotees and highly realized souls who have come in touch with that higher reality they have delivered this sacred name to us. And who mediates on them they will get super benefit of those highly realized souls. If they also hear something of that name and if they receive the name form a person coming from that platform then they get some benefit of that higher plane. Not that we simply get the benefit from some mundanely realized person who is telling just chant Hare Krsna. There is a difference. So one has to have fine discrimination. Discriminative intelligence, fine theistic intelligence to understand. One who hear from such person he can also get that finer understanding of things. Wont have the same meaning as we heard from those who don’t have that greater development. So everything depends upon from where that sound is coming from. And that means who that person is that we are getting the sound from.
“We shall try to take upadesa, instruction, from a real source, not from just anyone. Asat sangete krsna nama nahi haya: we cannot find real Krsna-nama in the association of those that do not have it. The external sound, the superficial sound may come out, but not the substance. The external cover of the sound, the ordinary sound, that may not be Krsna. Nama-aparadha, nama-abhasa. It is ordinary sound, not Vaikuntha sound, not spiritual sound.”
So Nama-aparadha means the person who is making offenses to others. Who has offensive attitude towards others. Towards Krsna, devotees, spiritual master, vaisnavs and with that if one is delivering Hari Nama then that is Nama-aparadha. That is not the nama we are talking about. That is not the proper name. nama-abhasa means the shadow. The reflection of the nama. Souls who have still some anarthas within their heart. They may chant with this nama-abhasa. It is not the pure name also. From them also we will not get the proper thing.
So they are ordinary sounds. Coming from those who are still standing in the material atmosphere. Who are not free from egotism, seeking honor, not giving proper honor to others, who are not Krsna consciousness, who are only practitioners, that may not be sufficient to give us the proper name. We want to look for the highest place that we can find the name – the purest source and that will give us the proper connection the real connection with the name. When we have spiritual life within we speak about Krsna our words are surcharged with the spiritual substance. Where the sound is surcharged with spiritual knowledge with feeling that is Krsna nama. That is Krsna.
Devotee 3: Maharaj, I have a question form Bhagavat-Gita 2.70. In the Purport, Srila Prabhupada is saying, about the qualities of Krsna Consciousness Man: “Desires may come to him like the waters of the rivers that flow into the ocean, but he is steady in his activities, and he is not even slightly disturbed by desires for sense gratification. That is the proof of a Krsna conscious man–one who has lost all inclinations for material sense gratification, although the desires are present.” So the question is, will there be desires within us for ever even tough we become fully Krsna Conscious?
HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: At some point in the development of Krsna Conscious, which is called anartha nivriti the desires are present. That will gradually be also gone. When one will come above that stage, it is possible. But we always have to consider our self in that position.
Actually why we have this body? So many desires are there. It is not that we are completely free from that. But a devotee is of such nature that when such desires come he recognizes and he doesn’t give into that desire. He knows that is mundane and he lost any attraction for that. But the modes of material nature are acting in this world, otherwise you can’t be here. This material world is made of goodness, passion and ignorance – sattava, raja and tama.
So as long as one has a body then there will be the influence of the three modes of material nature. But devotee doesn’t allow himself become under the control of those. His mind is fixed always on Krsna and Krsna also helps His devotee. And sometime may be not, He let the interaction occur and then testing His devotee to rise above that. Devotee doesn’t mind, whatever Krsna arranges he is satisfied with that. But he never loses his faith. Devotee may fall down from his position by the arrangement of the Lord even and he doesn’t let that disturb his service nonetheless. He goes on with his services. Just like a baby falls down on the ground when he is trying to walk again he gets up and begins to walk. Like that, we are babies and we are constantly falling and getting up. So we don’t let that disturb us.
Devotee 4: In the modern time people are given more impotence to the written expression than the oral expression. For example, people are reading Bhagavat-Gita, but generally we are not so careful about who is the author of Bhagavat-Gita. I found the same thing in the writing of Plato, where he gives more importance to the oral expression than the written expressions.
HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: Even in our educational system, we don’t tell people, Oh! You don’t have to come to school, go read the book and learn every thing. Do we tell like that? No. Even in modern system we understand having the teacher, the oral expression of the teacher is essential to train up the student properly. Isn’t it? So we are not telling something contrary to what is already going on in the world or already accepted by the world. You must have a teacher, an agent or a properly trained professor must be there to learn the spiritual knowledge also. Otherwise it won’t be real. Proper qualified teacher is necessary and essential.
In 2005, Science magazine published in the 125th Anniversary Issue 125 questions for which modern science has no tangible clue. These questions are presented under a special title What Don’t We Know? In the introduction section of “What Don’t We Know?” it is mentioned that “At Science, we tend to get excited about new discoveries that lift the veil a little on how things work, from cells to the universe. That puts our focus firmly on what has been added to our stock of knowledge. For this anniversary issue, we decided to shift our frame of reference, to look instead at what we don’t know: the scientific puzzles that are driving basic scientific research.” In the ‘Online Skype Conference’ on 16 March, 2008 HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami described the participants about one of these 125 questions mentioned by the Science magazine – What Is the Universe Made Of? A short discussion on this topic is also presented in the inaugural issue of quarterly newsletter of Bhaktivedanta Institute: Science and Scientist – Inquiring into the Origin of Matter and Life.
HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami explained the participants about the reasons due to which the scientists are facing the problems in answering the fundamental questions. In the context of the question What Is the Universe Made Of?, HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami told that, scientists are running into a problem – in understanding the universe they don’t have enough matter. The theories of the universe they have are not producing the results they are expecting. There are certain theories of Einstein and Newton, which they use to calculate the density of matter and the universe, the frequency of light coming from various parts of the universe and the micro waves that are present in the universe. It is not just a matter of measuring some features and putting down some results, they plug those features into an equation. Where do they get that equation from? – From their theories. Where do they get their theories from? – Some body made a guess: it might be like this and it might be like that. From that guess they wrote the theory and then the equation and they see if that confirms to that. They had a nice theory. They put a nice theory together – the explosion theory or the Big Bang theory. They calculated from that so many different things. Now they find that universe doesn’t have enough matter to let their equations work. Their theory doesn’t work. Rather than change the theory they want to change the universe. They say that, “The universe is not right. Our theory is right but universe is not correct. So let us correct the universe.” This is the philosophy of scientists.
In the conference various fundamental topics (for example, galaxy and why a force called gravity exists between the two masses) related to the question ‘What Is the Universe Made Of?’ are discussed by HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami.
The philosophy of G. W. F. Hegel and Immanuel Kant are also discussed in this connection. When one wants to study deeply, what is matter, what is space and what is time, then certain principles arise or the philosophy – one is unity and the other is diversity. From the principles of unity and diversity we can understand that matter exhibits two symptoms – unity and diversity. G. W. F. Hegel described the existence of attractions and repulsive force that exists between two bodies in a universe. However, scientists have no idea about the repulsive force in the universe. Scientists only know about the unitive force so they have made this Big Bang force.
We try to make distinction between our knowledge about the object and the object itself. But our knowledge of the object and the object itself are one and the same. When we talk about an object we talk nothing but our knowledge about that object. Hence we should know this philosophy properly. Scientists think knowledge about the object and the object itself are two different things. Scientists are failing to understand the logic of reasoning properly. The architecture of our own reasoning has to be understood properly before we can understand how our knowledge or consciousness is creating universe or representing universe to us. According to the knowledge of the universe that an individual has the universe is different for different individuals. Therefore we see in different civilization we have different ideas about the universe. They were explaining previously, in the western world they are looking out at the cosmos and they are thinking that it is all static – it is not moving. Now a day we think it is moving. So is that means that universe changed from previous age to this age? The universe doesn’t change over all these years but our knowledge is changing. Previously they understood that God created the universe, now they think that it is an explosion. It is all based upon how we understand things. Hence how to come to a proper understanding? We need veda. If we understand every thing is relative like that based on our knowledge then can we arrive at any truth ever? We can not come to any conclusion based on our mental speculation. To correct this defect of imperfect knowledge we need to accept the absolute authority of veda.
We have uploaded this Transcendental Nectar of Satsanga – Under the holy association of HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami. To listen this absorbing and very details technical discussion please click Satsanga: 16 March 2008(Downloads [downloadcounter(16_March_2008_HH_BMPS_BI_Weekly_Satsanga.mp3)]).To see all our past posting you may visit http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/ . Keep checking this page, we will be updating this site soon with many more details.
Timing of weekly Satsanga: 6:00 PM India time, Every Sunday.
We have uploaded weekly ‘Satsanga MP3’ and to download please click Satsanga: 09 March 2008(Downloads [downloadcounter(09_March_2008_HH_BMPS_BI_Weekly_Satsanga.mp3)]). In the Satsanga HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami answered the questions of devotees about: (1) The fundamental nature of life, (2) Limitation of evolution theory, (3) Inter religious understanding about God, (4) Why living entities are suffering in material world?, (5) Scientific system of happiness, (6) Causeless faith on Krsna and His devotees, (7) How can one remember Krsna even in the battle field? (8) How one should approach to understand scriptures and teachings of Acharayas?, (9) How to understand what is Bhakti Yoga?. You can get this ‘Transcendental Nectar of Satsanga’ at Satsanga: 09 March 2008(Downloads [downloadcounter(09_March_2008_HH_BMPS_BI_Weekly_Satsanga.mp3)]).
(3) Teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur: Part 1(Downloads [downloadcounter(13_Jan_2008_HH_BMPS_BI_Weekly_Satsanga.mp3)]), Part 2(Downloads [downloadcounter(20_Jan_2008_HH_BMPS_BI_Weekly_Satsanga.mp3)]), Part 3(Downloads [downloadcounter(27_Jan_2008_HH_BMPS_BI_Weekly_Satsanga.mp3)]), Part 4(Downloads [downloadcounter(10_Feb_2008_HH_BMPS_BI_Weekly_Satsanga.mp3)])
Timing of weekly Satsanga: 6:00 PM India time, Every Sunday.
You may visit http://my.podcast.com/Satsangato know the details about joining process for the online ‘Weekly Satsangas’. All past Satsanga MP3s month wise can be found below:
In 2005, Science magazine published in the 125th Anniversary Issue 125 questions for which modern science has no tangible clue. These questions are presented under a special title 
